I can’t have been the only person surprised to learn that Lena Dunham – the director/actor/podcaster/everything-er behind Girls – was at the helm of a film set in medieval times.
After all, this was the woman whose most well-known character, Girls’ Hannah Horvath – a semi-autobiographical portrayal of Lena herself – infamously deemed herself the millennial “voice of a generation.” In reality, Lena has been considered a leading millennial voice, so aptly commentating on our contemporary culture through her film and television work (in her debut film, Tiny Furniture; directing the pilot of HBO’s Industry; the list goes on) and, more recently, in her podcast The C-Word.
So what drove her to enter the world of medieval fiction? Not, it seems, the battles and gore so often associated with this genre; Catherine Called Birdy is instead a relatable, coming-of-age story that just so happens to be set in the 13th century.
“I’m interested in the history of domestic life,” Lena Dunham – who fully accepts my preconceptions – tells me, “Not a battle for a crown. I was excited by the idea of trying to show both the things that were so specific about that time and also the things that are timeless.”
The result is not so much a history as a herstory; the only bloodiness is when Birdy, the film’s 14-year-old protagonist, played by Bella Ramsey, gets her first period. The only “fight” scene is a joyous mud fight which opens the film’s action. And, in a genre which so often shows the ill-treatment of women at the hands of men, our teenage protagonist has a refreshing ownership over the storytelling, narrating through voiceovers from the beginning.
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Lena optioned the film rights for Catherine Called Birdy – a coming-of-age, young adult (YA) book by Karen Cushman – almost a decade ago, and filming was originally intended for the spring of 2020 when lockdown put a spanner in the works.
While Lena’s teenage drama directing was put on pause, did lockdown stimulate her interest in the “inner child”? “Absolutely. It made people, and I am including myself, examine themselves in a way that is a little bit unprecedented.” She adds: ”It wouldn't surprise me if a few people came out of lockdown with some really intense coming-of-age narratives they'd written. I came out of lockdown with a couple of my own.”
That last part makes me speculate whether we might expect a YA take on Girls from her someday. But, for now, let’s stay in the present – by which I suppose that means the medieval period – and hear from Lena, in her own words, about her latest film.
GLAMOUR: I adored Catherine Called Birdy. Full disclosure: normally, I switch off when I hear something has a medieval setting – because I immediately think of violent battle scenes, and that does not appeal. It was so great to see something medieval that was completely different – for instance, dealing with the coming-of-age experience. What was it about directing a story set in medieval times that appealed to you?
Lena Dunham: I love history, but what I'm interested in is the history of domestic life. That's very much the take of Karen Cushman, who wrote the novel that this is based on [also called Catherine, Called Birdy].
It's also very much the take of the female historians I got to understand the work of through this, including our historical consultant, Helen Castor, who gave me a sense that there's a whole other aspect of history that has been held back from us because of the historical lack of respect for the domestic sphere, and the work of women and children and basically anyone who's not an able-bodied man.
I was excited by the idea of showing both the things that were so specific about that time and also the things that are timeless. The things that haven't changed about what it means to be a woman. So I very much share your opinion, and it was really exciting for me to try to come at it from a different perspective.
Well, thank you – because you’ve really opened up and reframed the genre. I used to always watch something set in medieval times and think, ‘What about their periods? When’s that happening?’ It’s amazing to see that portrayed in this show.
It was interesting how hard it was to get information. I mean, periods are still something that's coming more to public consciousness. We still pour blue liquid instead of blood when we're showing how a tampon works in a commercial. And so it was important to me that the menstruation aspect [was] really visceral.
Even when I asked Helen, the historian I was working with, “What did women do when they had their periods?” She said, “Give me a few days to get back to you because it's not information that we all have.”
“It was probably easier in some ways for a woman to take control of certain aspects of her body in medieval England than it is in modern America right now.”
In what ways do you think that setting Catherine, Called Birdy in the medieval period reflects the timeless experiences that women go through?
Well, I do think that there's something interesting about looking at a period we think of as so long ago, almost savage, a thousand years ago almost. And realising how little about the way that we deal with women has changed. In fact, we've talked about [how it was] probably easier in some ways for a woman to take control of certain aspects of her body in medieval England than it is in modern America right now. That's not even being hyperbolic. That was interesting to me: to see how much has changed and how little has changed all at the same time.
What do you mean by saying women had more control over their bodies than, in some ways, compared to now?
Right now, in the US, women's reproductive rights are so completely compressed, and there are states where being able to make a choice about abortion is illegal.
In medieval times, so much of birthing and pregnancy was handled by women for other women and wasn't controlled by men. And so there was a world of midwifery and midwives. Women who were taking control of their bodies and helping other women do the same in a way that probably wouldn't even be possible in America right now except for the amazing radical women who are now keeping that tradition going.
It makes you think about how cyclical history is. How we think that we're in this constant forward march of progress, but actually, we keep coming around to the same ideas and refining them. And some of them are very dangerous ideas.
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Talking of the past coming back around – Catherine Called Birdy is technically a teenage drama, but it’s come out at a time when that genre is getting a broader, more adult audience: for instance, with the success of Stranger Things and Sex Education. What do you think is behind this growing interest in the inner child – or, indeed, the inner teenager?
Well, I think we're understanding more and more how much healing we need to do – not to be a total hippy, but how much healing we need to do of our own inner children. How much going back to that time of transition, that pubescent time, and trying to understand who we were and have more empathy for ourselves can actually serve us as adults? So, in that way, YA [young adult] is both for the younger viewer and the younger reader, and it's for the adult viewer and the adult reader who wants to understand their own process.
Adolescence is a short period of time, four years – like a presidential term. And yet, for so many of us, our teenage life is the thing we go back and back and back to. It is the most packed emotional and powerful period of time that never ceases to transfix us because teenage life is so full of hope, but it's also so full of fear, and it's also so full of change. And it's the moment where we start to realise that the adults who raised us are just people.
There's so much inherent in that time of our lives. That makes for such rich literature and cinema, and allows younger people and people who are already well into adulthood to meet at a common ground. My dream with this movie was always that it would be something that a 14-year-old could enjoy and they could enjoy with their parents. And I've gotten a few notes from people who said that they had a really wonderful, moving time watching with their kid. That really meant a lot to me.
Do you think lockdown had an effect on our renewed interest in the inner child, and the healing process associated with reconnecting?
I absolutely do. I think for a lot of people, and I am including myself, that that period of having to pause all of the defence mechanisms that we operate with, the things that we use to blockade ourselves – whether it's work or friendship or sex – lockdown forced us to retreat and to live with our own inner monologues. That makes people examine themselves in a way that is unprecedented. So it wouldn't surprise me if a few people came out of lockdown with some really intense coming-of-age narratives they'd written.
That’s interesting, actually, because another question I wanted to ask you was about autobiography. Girls was loosely autobiographical, as was your essay collection Not That Kind of Girl, and – to a degree – your newsletter Lenny Letter as well. But your more recent work, such as on this film and your podcast The C Word for instance, that's a departure from that autobiographical take. Have you become more private and less willing to talk about personal reflections as your career has progressed?
Well, I think absolutely you learn about the limitations of autobiography and also just how much you're willing to share, how much you're willing to take, and how much you are willing to give up of your own story. Because once you put it into the world, in a way, it belongs to everyone. But the other thing I started to realise is that one of the great ways to express yourself is through someone else's story. Like there is a lot of autobiography in Catherine Called Birdy or in Sharp Stick – the movie that I made before it – or in The C word that's embedded in another person's narrative, which actually makes it safer to talk about some of the things that are most private and most painful.
“One of the great ways to express yourself is through someone else's story.”
And I love how you then facilitate that. You make Bella’s inner life central throughout the film with her voiceovers and the fact it’s part of the narrative that she’s keeping a journal through, which is a framing device in the story. Was it important to you, as someone who both writes and directs, to challenge the medium of film in that way and really make that private inner life central in the way that a book might?
One of the things I loved most about the novel was that it came in this diaristic form, and that allowed us to be so deeply in her voice. I knew that in adapting the film, her voice was going to have to be central. In that way, the voiceover and the diary were baked in from the beginning. They were the thing that we thought about the most: “How do we do this? How do we tackle this?”
And what was your relationship like with Bella Ramsey while filming? At 19, she's still a teenager coming of age herself.
When I met Bella, she was 15, and I just felt deeply protective of her. I wanted to make sure that she, in every moment of the filming, felt safe and cared for and seen. What I didn't expect was how much of that I got in return because Bella is so wise, wonderful and connected. I got so much out of being her friend. It wasn't like I was taking care of her. She showed up for me in a lot of incredible ways, too, because of her amazing wisdom. We laughed, and we played, and we had inside jokes. I love it, and still – while doing press with Bella and spending time with her – it's such a joy to watch her grow into herself. She is like so many young people today, much more self-aware and embodied than I ever was at that age. It was so special for me. It was something that I didn't expect and got so much from.
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I mean, even watching it, one of the things that come across is that it looks like the experience of filming it must have been very fun. That mud fight in the opening scene!
We actually did have an extraordinary amount of fun, especially the fact that this was during Covid; it was pre-vaccine, so it had the potential to be a tense environment, but everyone was coming back to work. And they took that seriously, but we were also there to play and to be in a group. One of the things about making a film is that you have this special kind of alchemy of people that you never can quite repeat again. You have to appreciate what a very special, powerful, condensed period it is – like being a teenager! You always look back with great joy.
You’re a multi-hyphenate creative, which I've always really admired about you. The world is open to you in terms of what you can do. I’m curious about how you narrow down your creative choices. Is there a common thread running through which directs your decision-making process?
I go where I feel inspiration, joy and pleasure. That's really what I lean into. The connective tissue between all of this it's just work that I love and that excites me, and that scares me a little bit, in an exciting way. That’s my guide. I grab things that I think are going to push me forward as an artist and feed me. We're definitely in a period of time where everybody's sort of expected to be a mogul, and I love working, and it is my greatest joy, but my goal has never been to be a mogul. My goal has been to be an artist.
I have a question about creative control. You produce your podcast with Luminary so it's a subscription model, and this film, for instance, is under your own production company Good Thing Going Productions. Is owning creative control very important to you?
I'm inspired by women who grab that [control]. I've gotten to watch Taylor Swift [who, for context, was a bridesmaid at Lena’s wedding to husband, musician Luis Felber, last year] really take control of her musical legacy, which inspires me and pushes me.
And I even love looking back to the fact that Marilyn Monroe was one of the first women to start her own production company and to demand ownership of the things that she makes. Now I look at someone like Shonda Rhimes who has built this incredible empire that's literally called Shondaland, and it's her land, and she gets to run it with all of the wisdom and dignity and style that she has.
For me, I always started as a writer. And so directing was a way to own my stories. Having a production company is a further way to own my stories. Now, it's also a way to try to support other creators in the way that I was supported so that their own narratives aren't watered down or pushed to the side. Ownership has never been about money for me, although, of course, everyone should be paid for what they do. For me, it's about ownership of the stories and knowing that you are going to be able to tell your story in an unfiltered way that is purely you.
You've recently spent a lot of time in different parts of the UK. Obviously, you’ve relocated to London with your husband, Luis Felber, but you’ve also filmed Catherine Called Birdy in the West Midlands, and you spent time in Cardiff when you were directing the pilot of Industry. As an American, how are you adjusting?
Well, I loved it already. And then, I was planning to go back to the US, and I do still have a home there, but when I met my husband, it became really clear to me that there was also a beautiful life for me to be had here. I love this country. I love so much about the history, the art… the Indian food! There's a lot to be said for the magic of this place. I also think when you move somewhere for love, you see it in an entirely different way. And so we've built a really wonderful life here, the life that I always saw for myself, but didn't know quite how to have. I feel lucky for the time that I spend here. And I can definitely see myself growing old in the English countryside. That is a place – when I'm out of the city in London, and I'm in Hampshire or Shropshire or Wales, sort of the UK wilderness, there really is something about those landscapes that gets my imagination going. And I'm lucky my husband feels the same way. So that's definitely a goal of ours. We talk a lot about when we have our farm.
Well, the UK is blessed that here is where you’ve chosen and landed upon.
I'm so glad you think so. I sure do love it. And I have to say that the UK's been very kind to me.
Catherine Called Birdy is out now on Amazon Prime.
Francesca Specter is a freelance writer for GLAMOUR UK. You can follow her on Twitter, Instagram & Substack.
