As I sit face to face on Zoom with Myha'la Herrold and Marisa Abela, the breakout stars of BBC's Industry, it's hard to forget the dramatic fall-out of their respective characters, Harper Stern and Yasmin Kara-Hanani in the previous season.
That said, the women make a dynamic double act in real-life, both clearly enjoying their deserved success after the reception of the first season and excited to discuss the latest, second season – which was first released in the US over the summer before coming to BBC One last week. In this interview, we discuss their characters' ever-shifting power plays and relationships in the newest episodes, from whether their friendship will recover from last season's epic betrayal to the influence of newer characters, including Yasmin's 'mini-me' Venetia Berens (played by Indy Lewis) on the FX desk to Harper's mega-wealthy client, a hedge fund investor called Jesse Bloom, played by Jay Duplass.
The original socialite swindler tells all.
In conversation with GLAMOUR, we discuss the post-pandemic character evolution of Harper and Yasmin; what the second season has in store for them; plus, what the women have learnt, as actors, about the business after their breakout success (including the one firm boundary they both impose around sex scenes).
Hi Marisa and Myha'la. It's nice to see you sitting together out of character because the betrayal by Harper in the last season is vicious. What was that transition, from best friends (or frenemies) to sworn enemies, like to portray on screen?
Myha'la: I think it was quite fun. Marisa and I are close. We have a great personal relationship. So when you have that stability and safety in the relationship, when you get to set, and you start to play, you can really go any direction. So I always found that to be quite fun. I think we were kind of expecting it because although, like the majority of season one, was quite positive, the latter part… it started to fall apart a bit. And then yeah, I mean the last episode, we weren't in a good place, so I was, we were ready for that. And I think we were excited to experiment with this new dynamic.
Marisa: Yeah, absolutely. As much as everyone's sad that Harper and Yasmin's relationship didn't turn out great at the end of season one, it was quite superficial. Their personalities made a lot of sense together, but they were skirting over a lot of issues that made them quite incompatible to have a relationship. And I think that through their discourse in this season, they find a way to have a relationship that's actually built on honesty. Even though that's quite a hard discourse to go through.
So will a reconciliation be on the cards?
Myha'la: I think Marisa has put it well. With the two of them, there's always going to be a tinge of, 'Do I trust you?' What's nice is that we see them at the depth of the pit of their relationship in the second season. And they need to go through that part to get to the honesty of the relationship before they can truly be friends. And there can be that kind of trust there. But they do this thing…Like one person tries to say something really honest, the other person's not in a place to hear it. One person tries to approach them in this way, and they're not in a place to hear it. They're just missing each other the whole season until a bit later in episode five, when they have one moment at dinner, and they have a really open moment. They talk about personal stuff. They talk about family, and it's fun. And they laugh together for the first time, and it feels easy. So there here are moments of both, and I think anything is possible with the two of them.
Harper, it seems, has had an interesting kind of pandemic – having spent most of it working from a 4-star hotel. How has it affected her as season two begins?
Myha'la: The pandemic was her salvation. She worked so well in isolation when she could work from home, and she wasn't inundated with all of the expectations of having personal relationships at work. So really, when we find her, she's thriving, she's happy to be at home and working. The thing that starts to get sticky is that she has to come back into the office, and now she's confronted with all of those relationships that went quite south at the end of the first season, Yasmin being one of them. And because she hasn't been in the office for so long, there's tension between her and Eric and her and Rishi, and there are new people on the desk, and she doesn't really know how she fits in. She's trying desperately to make that happen, and it's failing left and right.
Yasmin is a complex character. In season one, she's at times scared of her own skin, like in the office, and in some ways, a confident dominatrix, as in her relationship with Robert. But, as season two begins, it seems like she's gained a lot of confidence. How does this develop?
Marisa: Similarly to Myha'la with Harper, I think Yasmin has found a kind of salvation in the pandemic. She found herself surrounded so much by her own people, and her privilege was reflected back to her in that space. She was afraid to lean into that privilege before, in her work environment and in the office. But she's not fighting against it anymore. It was fun to be able to play this side of Yamin where she wasn't so afraid of her privilege. It was more of her superpower now. And it opens a lot of doors for people, doesn't it? I think Yasmin was just like, if I'm not succeeding at work off of merit, why not lean into this sense of privilege and do what I do best? I mean, she's also talented. It's hard to speak eight languages, and she does that well. That's suited to a place like private wealth management where she can meet whoever, make them feel really comfortable, and make them feel like she's on their time, not the other way around. I think that Harper coming back into the office throws her off slightly. If we'd had started the series, like one episode earlier when Harper was still at home, we'd have seen Yasmin really rocking out.
The relationship between Harper and Eric is so fascinating. It's such a power play, and you get the sense in that trailer for season two that there's going to be a clash because you've got Eric saying to Harper aggressively, 'We don't work together, you work for me'. How's that going to develop?
Myha'la: Well, it's interesting to watch because we get to dive a little deeper into all of these characters' lives outside of the bank. And what happens when there's sort of a next step for all of them. Because there's this threat of CPS [Cross Product Sales, the department both Eric and Harper work in] London being subsumed into the office in CPS New York, so all of them are kicking it into gear to solidify the hope that they won't be made redundant. And with Eric, he's been in the game for a long time, and now he's got this sort of senior position, but his numbers aren't reflecting his paycheck. So there's some threat there, and it's nice to watch him under pressure for the first time. Under the kind of pressure that we feel like the junior people on the desk are under. And to watch Harper when she gets this huge client in Jesse Bloom, and she's feeling like she's gaining her own sort of roster and confidence and success. It's juxtaposed with Eric being on his downfall, and the roles feel like they reverse a little bit. But the thing that's interesting about them is that they gravitated towards each other in the beginning because they had a few things in common. They're both underdogs, they're both foreign people in this place in London. There were expectations of them that they either chose not to meet or they exceeded. So they have this love-hate, teasing thing going on. In some ways, Harper needs that relationship, even if they're at odds because it's the closest thing to familiarity that she has there aside from Yasmin. But now they're in competition… so it's not quite the same as when she saw him as a mentor. It's complicated, but they will always find each other in some way – they will always gravitate towards each other. They both need each other to survive in a lot of ways.
The interesting new relationship in this season is between Yasmin and Venetia, the latest recruit on the Foreign Exchange Sales desk. But initially, it looks like she might be Yasmin's mini-me, but she goes in a very different direction and rubs her the wrong way. How will that relationship develop?
Marisa: That's a really interesting relationship, how that plays out – it's like a trauma cycle. You can see that Yasmin wants to empower Venitia, but Yasmin doesn't want Venitia to be really empowered because it wasn't how Yasmin was. So if Yasmin could've been the one to liberate Venicia and be like, 'Trust me, you can be amazing here!', And Venitia, would've been like, 'Thank you, that's such an honour for you to say,' I'm sure they would've been best friends. But for Venitia to be a walking embodiment of the fact that Yasmin could have gone through the whole of season one without having to debase herself in the way that she did, whether that was getting salads for everyone or having strippers bounce their bodies in her face… it's just so demoralising for her to see this ready-made person. It makes her feel like she wasn't necessarily a victim of harassment in the workplace or toxicity but just like a doormat. That it was kind of her fault that she allowed herself to be put in that position. So she resents her for that reason. Yasmin tries really hard with Venetia at different points to be the mentor that Yasmin wanted, but she's just not very good at it. She's not very generous with her. Also, Yasmin, at the very least, wants to have a bit of a laugh– she really likes someone with a fantastic sense of humour. What she really liked about Harper was that she was a bit naughty, and Venetia's not very naughty at all. They just don't know how to communicate with each other.
While Industry reflects a lot of terrible things about the banking industry, what we do see is a lot of diversity of different kinds – gender, race – and different minority groups being represented. Would you say that's an idealistic reflection of how the finance industry looks in terms of diversity or a truthful one? To what extent would you say that this show is about diversity and minority groups?
Myha'la: Well, Mickey Down and Konrad Kay, who created the show, were in this industry. They both had years in finance, so they have a really keen, clear picture of what it looked like, and they based the show on their experience. It is a secret, massive melting pot that people just don't know about because most of the pictures that we paint of finance in the media are of the oldest, whitest, most senior people in the business. And I think, generally speaking, the most senior people are probably mostly white and old. But there are millions of people going into it every day of all genders, race, creeds, and colours… which is why this show looks the way it looks because it's representing a certain bracket of the business. I think that just really is how it is. They come from all over the place. And a lot of people, like they say in the show, this is a place of merit. You get paid based on what you do and what you make for the bank. Of course, there are going to be people who come in with a set of privileges or experiences or resources. It's the Harper versus Yasmin moment. Harper comes from a non-target school, she has no connection to her family, and she doesn't come with any money, but she comes with savvy and intelligence. So in that environment, what you bring to the table and in that way, really, really works on the trading floor at least.
Myha'la, you mentioned Jesse Bloom, who's Harper's big client in this series, played by actor Jay Duplass. What was that like to work with him?
Myha'la: Fabulous. Jay's the best, he's the sweetest. He's so much fun to work with. He's really nice, super down to earth. Everybody who comes on the show has respect and a love for the show for the writing. That's a testament to Mickey and Konrad.
Time and time again, we refuse to acknowledge her endless triumphs.
And I guess I just sort of bounce that question to slightly broader aspects. Well, for both of you, there's lots of new characters coming in for season two. Did it feel like you were, had lots of exciting new dynamics to play off as a result of that?
Marisa: Yeah, definitely. The focus of this season isn't necessarily the kind of nuclear relationships that we saw last season. They dip in and out of those relationships, but more than anything, you are looking at these people's relationships with their families, with their backgrounds, and with their friends, from outside of work. You meet Yasmin's dad, you meet Harper's brother, and those kinds of experiences really help you understand more about a person. Especially with Yasmin, I think, when you meet her dad, and you hear some of the things that he has been up to, it kind of shows you a lot of why she is the way that she is. That was really exciting: to have the chance to have new actors on set was a real privilege and a real blast. And like Myha'la said, especially because they were there because they'd seen the show and they'd really liked it. It was a product moment for us.
Your characters are now in more senior positions at Pierpoint, with people working under you, and that's a different dynamic from when you were all lambs to the slaughter in the first season, as graduates. How has that progression been mirrored in your own career trajectories? Because you both came to the show fresh from acting school, and now you are in the second season, with other acting roles ahead of you. Do you personally feel that you are walking in with a whole new kind of swagger and confidence, having almost proved yourselves through the huge success of Industry?
Myha'la: Definitely. The first time around, it was our first big break, and there were a lot of expectations. There was a fear in not knowing how we were going to tackle it. But now, having gone away and had a year in lockdown, and having a few other projects under our belts, We've come back and not only are we very familiar, having done it before, but there's a newfound confidence and set of skills that are entirely outside of what we do as actors. Those skills are more to do with the business side of the whole thing. Because it's not just showing up on set and doing your words. There's so much other stuff required of us, particularly as young people and as women, advocating for what you need on set and off of set, making sure that you're looked out for and taken care of. For me, I was very far from home. So that was a whole element. But the more you do, the better equipped you are to handle situations. It was nice to come back and just be like, okay, I can settle in. I know what I'm doing now. I can just play and have a good time and make the show.
Just to expand on that a bit, I know that, Marisa, you've spoken about the intimacy scenes before in interviews. Were you able to give more feedback, to push back more, now when you were filming those scenes? Because I know your character in particular, had some heavy sex scenes in the first season.
Marisa: Yeah. It's hard because it's not so much that I feel like I'm able to push back now because I didn't enjoy it or anything… I think people assume that as soon as you get any power or leverage in a situation – which we do a bit more now – that your instinct is to be like, OK, great, no more sex, no more nudity. In fact, one of the things I love about Yasmin the most, which I think people really responded to about her, was that she is empowered physically and sexually as a young woman. She's proud of her body and she's proud of her sexuality, and how she's able to express it. I don't want to lose that in her. But there are things that I question, now, in terms of how that's expressed. I don't think I would have been scared to say anything before, or to have felt that I wasn't allowed to. I just felt that I was so lucky to be there and that if it was written down, I was going to do it. Whereas now, I might be like, 'Oh, if this is what we're trying to say with this scene, instead of doing X, could we do Y?' I actually have a lot less nudity this season, but it's not like that was a choice. It's just that Yasmin's doing other stuff. She's got more issues with her family or with her dad, or with her work. Yasmin's storyline last season was a lot more about her sexuality. She was trying to figure out what it was that she wanted from Robert. And I think she's kind of figured that out now. So it's just less of a storyline for her. But I think I learnt a lot from Myha'la. I remember hearing her once be like, 'If I have a sex scene or an intimacy scene, I'd really love to like, not break for lunch in the middle of it. If we're gonna do it, let's do it. And then we can have a late lunch, or we can start early in the morning and be done by lunch or after lunch, whatever. But I do not want to break for lunch in the middle of an intimacy scene.' And I was like, I am stealing that.
Can you expand more on why you wouldn't want to break for lunch?
Myha'la: When you are in there, and you've got that robe on, and you are in the headspace, you just wanna get it done and like it, you don't wanna have to go have a roast chicken and come back. Do you know what I mean? Because you don't wanna go back and kiss somebody after just eating a whole chicken. I don't want to go and sweat in the trailer and sit there, and then I have to reimagine being sexy. It's not like a nice thing.
Marisa: You don't feel your sexiest after eating a huge meal, but equally it's just because it's a very intimate space. And there's a lot of hoo-ha around it. You've got an intimacy coordinator, asking like, 'How does everyone feel? Is everyone feeling safe? Is everyone ready to do this?' Then we've got to set up the lighting, and people have to leave because it's a closed set and all of that kind of stuff. So you'd have to do that all again [if you took a break for lunch]. There's just more red tape around those scenes than around normal scenes. They take the longest [out of any scenes] a lot of time, because everyone's being sensitive. So once you are in and the environment is right, it's just good to kind of get it done.
Industry season two first aired with season one on Tuesday 27 September on BBC One at 10:40pm, with new episodes released weekly every Tuesday. All eight episodes are also available to watch now on BBC iPlayer.
It's proof, if ever we needed it, that representation matters.
