In this age of cancel culture, it’s harder than ever for journalists to get a juicy celebrity interview thanks to PR teams who pre-approve questions and veto anything in the slightest bit spicy.
So, in that case, we need to give props to Alex Cooper, host of Call Her Daddy podcast, for asking a clearly uncomfortable Gwyneth Paltrow to rank her exes in bed and somehow getting an answer without a flustered PR intervention.
It starts when 28-year-old Alex tells Gwyneth they are going to play a game called “Brad or Ben”. Quick recap for those, who don’t regularly visit TMZ: Brad Pitt and Gwyneth dated from 1994 to 1997 and were engaged. Ben Affleck meanwhile was by Gwyneth’s side for an on off period between 1997 and 2000.
When initially asked, Gwyneth responded “Brad”, to which Alex burst out laughing and explained they hadn’t even started the game yet.
Now, I do want to point out, in the clip on the Call Her Daddy YouTube channel, it’s clear that Gwyneth is immediately uncomfortable as she instinctively crosses her arms (I’ve watched enough of The Behaviour Panel on YouTube to know that body language) and there is a clear cut in the footage where I imagine a slightly crazed publicist did intervene.
However, Gwyneth did continue and while she tried to be as diplomatic as possible, answering questions on who had better style and who was more romantic, it’s kind of impossible to lose that diplomacy when answering “Who was a better kisser?” and “Who was better in bed?”
While Gwyneth wouldn’t concede a winner for best kisser, “They were both good kissers”. She did go into more detail on her physical relationship with both men.
“That is really hard because Brad was like this sort of major chemistry, love of your life at the time and then like Ben was technically excellent.”
Watching Alex throw her head back with laughter, it’s hard not to imagine how I’d feel watching the same interaction on the Joe Rogan podcast, with Ben or Brad answering the same questions about Gwyneth.
I know I would hate it and I know my Instagram feed would be full of opinion pieces from every publisher I follow, sharing their take on the misogyny of it all.
Just imagine Ben Affleck musing over whether Jennifer Garner or Gwyneth Paltrow was “technically” better. Demeaning these women and their roles in his life down to their sexual performance.
Honestly, just thinking about this imaginary role play makes me hate Ben. So, in turn I should hate Gwyneth for this reverse sexism.
Here’s the thing though, I’m not angry with Gwyneth, I’m disappointed because by answering these questions, she has ensured that every male right-wing commentator, every incel Twitter account and of course the likes of Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson have enough content to feast upon for over a month.
Especially when it comes after the debate over actor Pedro Pascal and his sexual objectification by women, which resulted in him declining to read “thirst” tweets about himself during an uncomfortable red-carpet interview.
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I agree that on the surface this could easily be labelled as reverse sexism. The problem, however, is that’s actually not a thing.
Sexism exists because women have been objectified for their bodies since time began, which has resulted in men being prioritised in fundamental areas of life like work and healthcare.
Before any men reading this eye roll, the facts speak for themselves. The UK government announced a £25 million investment in women’s health hubs to address the gender health gap last year and just this month, The Guardian reported four out of five employers still pay women less.
Of course, by far the most horrific thing this lifetime of objectication has led to is violence. Between April 2020 and March 2021, 177 women were murdered in England and Wales. In cases where the suspect was known, 92% of these women were killed by men. Meanwhile the year ending September 2021 saw the highest number of sexual offences ever recorded against women, with a total of 40,572. It’s worth noting these are only the reported cases.
To put it simply, the power balance that has existed since time began means that Gwyneth ‘objectifying’ her ex-boyfriends doesn’t result in real life consequences for them. Brad and Ben won’t need to worry about being paid less than their female co-stars. They won’t have to live with debilitating pain because their health concerns have historically never been investigated due to their gender and they won’t have to text their friend when they get home after a night out.
Having said all that, it’s not helpful. Yes, I know ‘helping’ is a stereotypical gender role, but we all know how it feels to be sexually objectified. Why would we want someone else to feel that way?
We also know that despite having the facts, research and statistics to back it up, institutional sexism remains a problem and one that many men simply refuse to believe.
So, while I’m sure Brad and Ben are sharing some iconic WhatsApp messages this morning, let’s not fan the flames of Internet misogynists any further.
