Four years on, Florence Pugh has made her big return to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And after her on-screen sister Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow met her demise (sorry, spoiler!) her character Yelena has found a new friend. Kind of.
In Marvel's newest superhero movie Thunderbolts*, Florence's Yelena finds herself teaming up with other misfit superheroes Bucky Barnes (Sebastian Stan), John Walker (Wyatt Russell), Red Guardian (Stranger Things' David Harbour), Ghost (Hannah John-Kamen) and Taskmaster (Olga Kurylenko).
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But the closest bond she forms is with a mysterious new character Bob, played by Lessons in Chemistry star Lewis Pullman. When they find themselves trapped in a vault as part of a plan to assassinate them, the pair begin a friendship that sees them confide their deepest traumas. The “void” – an evil power that feeds on traumatic memories – is used throughout the film as a clever allegory for depression. It's refreshing to see a Marvel blockbuster explore the mental health journey, with Florence and Lewis very much at the forefront.
Plus, we see Florence break a Guinness World Record within the first few minutes of the film by base jumping off the second tallest building in the world, the Merdeka 118 in Kuala Lumpur. An unmissable power move to watch on screen.
GLAMOUR sat down with Florence and Lewis to talk their own mental health journeys alongside the movie, as well as the bond they forged on set.
Even though it’s undoubtedly an action movie, at its core Thunderbolts is about fighting your inner demons and trauma, quite literally – what do you hope this film says about mental health, particularly male mental health?
Lewis: I think there was a lot of this that was very personal for me, and so I felt important to try and represent it in an accurate way and in a realistic way. There's so much fear around getting the language right when you're talking about mental health and saying the wrong thing, it can prevent you from actually talking about it.
And so I think it is kind of the perfect vessel with the Thunderbolts, we are all kind of just mess-ups who are trying to figure out these really deep and very complicated themes about mental health. And I think that they're messing it up on the way. That really important to remember. You don't have to know the right terms to start talking about it or to think that you can help somebody with something.
And then also I think that it was really important to represent how it can look different… just because you're smiling doesn't mean there's not a lot going on in there.
GLAMOUR: Did you guys draw from your own experiences of mental health and lows in life?
Florence: During the making of this movie, I had one of the most wonderful, bizarre realisations where the lesson that this film was trying to teach us was something that I was learning from as we were shooting the movie.
And it was really wonderful to be taking inspiration from the art that we were creating and allowing myself, I suppose, the graciousness that Yelena allows herself of actually accepting that she needs help and accepting that she needs to allow others to care for her, which is something that I find very, very hard. I like being the carer and I like being the person that is there for everybody. And I think during that movie it was a real nice wake-up call of actually going, "It's okay," and it's okay to accept that you're not [feeling] great and it's okay to accept that you're feeling quite weak and it's okay to ask for help and it's okay for people to help you.
I had a nice mirrored realisation of the work that I was creating was the exact thing that I needed to teach myself.
Florence and Lewis took GLAMOUR's Friendship Test…
GLAMOUR: Florence, what was your first impression of Lewis?
Florence: I remember instantly laughing with you, and that just continued throughout the whole movie, so very, very funny. Very clever and very funny. That was my first impression. And I also knew in the first rehearsal when we were going through the script and seeing which bits that we liked and which bits that we wanted to change, instantly feeling relaxed. I was like, "Okay, cool. I've got a great scene partner and he's a really good craic. So this is going to be a fun experience."
Lewis: My first impression was you being like, I need to have my dog on the…
Florence: On the studio lawn.
Lewis: And we were all like, "Yeah, you should have your dog." And you're like, "It's not allowed. There's no dogs or animals allowed." And we were all like, “That's absurd.” And you were like, “I know.” And you're like, "I think I'm going to..." And you did the most Thunderbolt-y thing. You were like, “I'm going to bring my dog anyway.”
I remember just having a lot of fun joking around, but then you are way better about joking and then going into the scene and doing an unbelievable job.
Florence: There were so many takes where we would be in the middle of a deep, deep bit where we would be off on a completely different tangent and then they'd be like, “Okay, and rolling!”
GLAMOUR: Florence, what is Lewis' biggest ick?
Florence: I don't like the term ick. I don't believe in the… I think it's really shit. And it only really associates to men and I don't like that either… People fuck up and that's absolutely fine. Why are we making a big deal out of it? [To Lewis] I don't know your ick and I don't care about your ick, because I embrace all of you.
Lewis: I don't have any icks… Who would play Florence in her biopic?
Florence: I haven't thought about that. That's assuming I've thought about it. That's assuming that I think that I deserve one.
Lewis: Do you think it would be a cool movie?
Florence: No way! No way! There are plenty more important and more brilliant people that deserve a biopic. I can't even speak.
Lewis: Yeah, I do think I want to throw my hat in the ring.
Florence: I would love! Okay. Okay. Now I changed my mind. If you were playing me in my biopic, I would actually help fund that.
Lewis: And I would pitch in quite a bit as well.
Florence: I would genuinely love to see that. And I, almost go as far to say that the movie doesn't need to be made. Just get us to the camera tests! Just get us to the camera tests. I just need to see your footage attempting to look like me… Kevin Feige? Do you want to be a part of this? Okay. Who would make the better action hero in real life? Actually you, because...
Lewis: It's simply not true. Go ahead.
Florence: He did so much prep for getting into physical shape for being his character and he was so dedicated and I remember the day that he was allowed to have a burger again and it was like he'd been shut out in the desert for weeks and then there was food placed in front of him. He was like, "Ah," like shaking for burger and a milkshake. And that takes real dedication.
Lewis: Especially when you don't even see it on camera.
Florence: So true… What original Avenger would Lewis be?
[To Lewis] I actually think you would be a really funny Tony Stark. Could you imagine you as a Tony Stark?
Lewis: Cannot
Florence: It would be hysterical.
Lewis: That's another movie I'd love to make and then never release.
Florence: It would... Just for us to watch.
Lewis: Yeah, just for us, a little home viewing.
GLAMOUR: Should we make a list of films that need to be made?
Florence: So no one can see them, but just for us to enjoy.
Lewis: Okay. What is Florence's most used emoji?
Florence: It's changed over the years, but recently it's the person doing a cartwheel. So cute.
Lewis: So cute.
Florence: So effective for anything. Like if someone says, "Are you coming out tonight?" Just send them that. Or "Are you up for lunch?" Send them that. Or, "Hey, did you do the laundry?" Send them that. It's honestly brilliant.
Because when you have fucked up and you haven't done something, it's even funnier. No. Whoo!
Lewis: I haven't even really unlocked that. I need to bring it to my most used so that I can incorporate...
Florence: And then also the disco man.
Lewis: Oh, the disco man's great.
GLAMOUR: I feel like I'm not fully utilising my emoji keyboard.
Florence: Me neither. I used to do... It was either just the turd. I love the turd. He's so cute.
Lewis: Classic.
Florence: Just a little smiling poo.
Lewis: It really looks like a poo...
Florence: Yeah, it was either the turd and now it's the cartwheeling man or the disco man… Or the pregnant lady… Yeah, she's great. Especially if it's like, “Do you want to come to dinner tonight?”
Who is funnier you... Or Lewis? Lewis.
Lewis: That's not true.
Florence: It is true.
Lewis: It is not.
Florence: It is true.
GLAMOUR: Why?
Florence: His comedic timing is brilliant. He also just loves to laugh at himself, which is just the true key to any person that's funny. And also he made me laugh the most on set. I also spent the most time with you on set.
Lewis: Yeah, we spent a lot of time-
Florence: But we were both delirious on set together, because at the beginning of the shoot when we were still trying to figure out how we were going to make days, the shoot would get longer and longer each day. And we'd be finishing on a Friday at 10pm, 11pm at night. And that was when we were truly going really cuckoo.
Lewis: Really bonkers. There's some really, really crucial scenes in the film that we do at the end of the day with five minutes left.
Florence: It's quite mad, actually. The scenes that are in the movie that we shot at 10pm at night on a Friday.
Lewis: Pivotal, pivotal.
GLAMOUR: Lewis, what surprised you most about working with Florence?
Florence: My smell?
Lewis: I never really smelled you. Which is a surprise, because we were doing a lot of running around.
Florence: Oh, yeah.
Lewis: I would say what surprised me most was how generous you were with just helping guide me into this crazy thing.
And I think without being like... "Let me help you," it was a very sneaky way that I didn't realise was happening until midway through I was like, "Oh, she's been very much a champion of taking me under..." I'm trying to avoid the taking under the wing.
Florence: Because it sounds a bit weird-
Lewis: But yeah.
Florence: Because then you really might smell me. I think entering this world and entering these movies is a really big deal and you don't really realise in the moment what's happening. And it's really intimidating because there's a lot of moving parts and because when you are the new person, there's so much that you're trying to process that you don't realise that you have power in certain situations or that you can help a scenario. And I think it's really important that there is someone, like I had, you know, Scarlett [Johansson] was that for me, to have someone that is just allowing you time to process things and allowing you moments to take control of scenarios.
This interview was edited and condensed for clarity.
Thunderbolts is out in cinemas now.
