Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley talk feminism, misogyny and their controversial film The Substance

The film is meant to be a Hollywood satire, but has divided critics – its stars speak out on its message.
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Have you ever dreamed of a “better” version of yourself? Sadly most of us have, at one point or another. Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley's new film The Substance asks this exact question, highlighting our obsessions with self-improvement through the pursuit of youth, as well as beauty and body image pressures. It takes a very dystopian look at what creating a younger “more beautiful, more perfect” version of yourself could lead to. Spoiler: it all ends in tears and horror.

Directed and written by Coralie Fargeat, the film follows the story of TV star and aerobics instructor Elisabeth Sparkle (Moore), who is fired from her own show on her 50th birthday by her boss, Dennis Quaid's cartoonishly misogynist TV exec Harvey – a not-even-slightly-subtle iteration of disgraced abuser Harvey Weinstein.

Horrified and heartbroken by her own fading celebrity and star quality, Elisabeth happens across – you guessed it – The Substance, a mysterious injectable liquid that promises to transform her into an enhanced version of herself. In fact, it creates a wholly separate being – albeit younger and more in line with Hollywood's beauty standards than an ordinary 50-year-old woman – in the form of Qualley's Sue. The two women must take it in turns to “live”, one heading out into the world while the other lies unconscious and nude in Elisabeth's bathroom. But before long, Sue begins to usurp Elisabeth's life, taking over her TV show and growing hungrier for a life of her own. What follows is not for the faint of heart, or stomach.

Critics have described the film as “misogynistic”, arguably due to the fact that it depicts the chauvinism that underpins the world of Hollywood, celebrity culture and the beauty standards that invade our own everyday lives, without condemning it enough. The satire becomes a little lost along the way, leaving us with no resolution or redemption, or even a rallying cry against these toxic pressures.

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Universal Studios

Interestingly, for Demi, what's most significant is not these wider pervasive misogynistic structures, but her character Elisabeth's decision to participate in them – and the arguable agency she has when choosing to do that. “The more important aspect of this is not what's being done to her, but what she's doing to herself. That, I think, is the key – we have the ability to shift and change,” she tells GLAMOUR. “It also shifts us out of being a victim.”

To call the film misogynist, Demi adds, limits its message. "By placing it as just misogynistic actually limits the real scope and expansiveness of what the journey in this story is.”

When GLAMOUR asks if the film is feminist, both Demi and Margaret are adamant that it is. But they defined The Substance's feminism by whether it appeals to women ("I think that it would be limiting it to say that it wouldn't resonate with men equally," Demi said), not necessarily by whether it advocates for gender equality and female empowerment as a whole. Not to mention that men can be feminists, too.

While it starts out sleek, stylish and clear in its mission, The Substance's grotesque use of horror at the end does seem to undermine its message about society's treatment of ageing women, as well as the pressures that are held around beauty standards and body image. Without giving any spoilers away, the film has an extremely gruesome end.

For Demi though, the use of such levels of “body horror” was supposed to be something of a relief, and an “external” portrayal of the horrors these pressures unleash on our inner selves. “It gives us a relief from the intensity, in a way that is also externalising what we do to ourselves on the inside,” she told GLAMOUR. "It's just reflecting all of those feelings that [Elisabeth] had towards herself, the real violence against herself."

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Margaret adds that the movie also taps into the devastating impacts of feeling isolated: “It's also so much about loneliness, you know? It's about like this deep desire to be loved, right? And going about that in all the wrong ways."

Demi and Margaret opened up to GLAMOUR about filming nude scenes, the ways in which filming The Substance empowered them and what needs to change to liberate us all from society's beauty standards.

What drew you both to the film, what was it about its message that spoke to you?

Demi: It was just an amazing, wild ride, right? Seeing the whole script, I think the subject matter was intriguing, and the way in which Coralie was exploring it through the dynamic of these two entities, it was captivating.

Margaret: I just loved the story, and thought the world that Coralie created was so singular and specific and fleshed out in a way that reminded me of Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty or something like that, but only totally f*cked up, like the nightmare version of it.

You both filmed some nude scenes for the film – what was that like to do, considering the subject matter of the film and what it’s saying about how women’s bodies are perceived?

Demi: I think the important part was really capturing the vulnerability, so that for the audience, they could be with us in that vulnerability. I mean, it's awkward. We were both laying on hard cold tile floor. We had bones that were hurting – gratefully, we had each other to look out for each other, being like, ‘oh, cover that up’.

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We see different representations of body hair on screen, including full pubic hair – was that important to portray, to highlight pressures on women when it comes to body hair?

Demi: I don't think it was about micro focusing on that. I think it was just about the body as a whole and [showing it] in its rawness.

Demi, how has filming nude scenes and sex scenes changed throughout your time in Hollywood?

Demi: [Back then] we didn't have what they have quite often now, an intimacy person. I think so much of it is really about communication upfront. Also, I think [it's important] when you're given the room after the fact, to be able to have a voice, as opposed to just having to give of yourself and leave it to somebody else…

[While filming The Substance] a lot was set up upfront, but we also had certain support protections, to have a voice after it was all cut together. I don't think either of us changed anything after the fact, but I think knowing that we had that maintains a certain democracy that I think is important and empowering.

Margaret, what did you learn from Demi while working together?

Margaret: Demi couldn't have been a better person to work with. I've looked up to her for a long time. I'm such a freaking fan of hers, and she's just such a team player and so supportive. And I felt super lucky to be able to hold her hand walking through this fire.

Was making the film empowering, and do you think there are any messages of female empowerment in the film?

Demi: At the end of the day, it was a very difficult and hard shoot for us on many levels, but I feel like I walked away feeling very liberated. In a way, going to those places that were not so attractive, that were not glamorous, was very freeing.

Margaret: For me, I play this hyper-sexualised idea of perfect, Coralie's interpretation of the male gaze. It was this brutal experience of an exaggerated form of all the ways in which women try to manipulate their bodies, or feel like they have to manipulate their bodies. I had false eyelashes, I had fake boobs on and long hair extensions – and when I didn't have the fake boobs on, I'd have a crazy push up bra. All these things that were obtrusive and uncomfortable, and so [it became] this big shield that I was really excited to be rid of.

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So what needs to change, to shift these expectations on women?

Margaret: All the things I just mentioned could be really positive, sweet things – if you're enjoying them. And it's an expression of yourself.

Demi: But who are you doing it for?

Margaret: Yeah exactly. If it's an expression of yourself…

Demi: If you like to be in a push up bra…

Margaret: Then go off, absolutely.

Demi: More power to it. But it really goes back to what brings you joy.

Margaret: I think that's it. It's a tool that a woman has in her arsenal, or a card in her deck. And if you have that card and you want to use it, amazing. But I hope that you have all of the cards and that you can use any card you'd like.


The Substance is available to watch in cinemas now.